odds and ends

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odds and ends

Post by radicool_systemite on Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:57 am
([msg=19224]see odds and ends[/msg])

Over on the W3schools.com site I'm taking the HTML tutorial. There is a situation where, if you leave off a piece of code, like a tag at the end, or put an improper tag at the end, the code will still show up, as though it assumes it knows what you want.

I had this idea that computers only do what you tell them too, as explained to me once by a friend. So, who tells the computer to display what you meant to type if you forget to put a tag at the end of a line of code? Did someone really go through and program hundreds of mistake combinations into the computer's ummm...brain so that it could anticipate human error?

Also, is it too simplistic to say "computers only do what you tell them to"? I vaguely know there may be such a thing as "anomalys" or whatever you may want to call it, and without getting into too much abstract compology I can't help but appreciate the logic that a computer simply cannot do what it was not told to do, by someone somewhere down the line.

On another slightly more silly note, if someone were to hack past the "terms of use" agreement that is necessary to click before registering to post on these forums, would the administrators allow that person to break the rules listed in that agreement because s/he was able to post without agreeing?
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Re: odds and ends

Post by godofcereal on Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:56 am
([msg=19229]see Re: odds and ends[/msg])

If you break a rule, people will let you know.
Im off, last year of school and all, I had something longer but char limit fucked that up. So yeah, had a good run here. Thanks for the memories. Thanks to the staff and users.

Best regards, your posting whore,
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p.s. Defience, you the man ;)
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Re: odds and ends

Post by mischief on Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:11 pm
([msg=19253]see Re: odds and ends[/msg])

radicool_systemite wrote:I had this idea that computers only do what you tell them too, as explained to me once by a friend. So, who tells the computer to display what you meant to type if you forget to put a tag at the end of a line of code? Did someone really go through and program hundreds of mistake combinations into the computer's ummm...brain so that it could anticipate human error?

Also, is it too simplistic to say "computers only do what you tell them to"? I vaguely know there may be such a thing as "anomalys" or whatever you may want to call it, and without getting into too much abstract compology I can't help but appreciate the logic that a computer simply cannot do what it was not told to do, by someone somewhere down the line.


just like a well oiled machine, computers do exactly as they are told. just because you didn't want something to happen doesn't mean your computer wasn't told to do so. it could be someone told it to do the wrong thing on accident, or maybe someone intentionally told it to do something unexpected.

imagine it like a fresh block of marble. the craftsman must carve the block to the way he sees fit, and the block isn't going to carve itself. much the way a computer only knows what it is told :)
The whole secret of existence is to have no fear. Never fear what will become of you, depend on no one. Only the moment you reject all help are you freed.
--Buddha
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Re: odds and ends

Post by radicool_systemite on Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:11 am
([msg=19316]see Re: odds and ends[/msg])

If you break a rule, people will let you know.


Ummm, Thanks...?

just because you didn't want something to happen doesn't mean your computer wasn't told to do so.


But my question was about a circumstance in which you DID want something to happen, and it happened, DESPITE an error on your part with the code. Who told the computer to anticipate your intention, despite the coding error? The example I used was the HTML end tags not being typed properly (or in some cases left out altogether), and yet the webpage still turns out the way you intended.
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Re: odds and ends

Post by aNewHobby4me on Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:16 am
([msg=19318]see Re: odds and ends[/msg])

radicool_systemite wrote:Over on the W3schools.com site I'm taking the HTML tutorial. There is a situation where, if you leave off a piece of code, like a tag at the end, or put an improper tag at the end, the code will still show up, as though it assumes it knows what you want.


It does know what you want...at least to the point of matching HTML tags and the like.

radicool_systemite wrote:But my question was about a circumstance in which you DID want something to happen, and it happened, DESPITE an error on your part with the code. Who told the computer to anticipate your intention, despite the coding error? The example I used was the HTML end tags not being typed properly (or in some cases left out altogether), and yet the webpage still turns out the way you intended.



When you write a note on a piece of paper with a pencil, you can make all sorts of spelling errors and they won't be corrected. Unless you turn it in for a grade, that is. :)

Notepad is just like that piece of paper, it takes what you give it, no questions asked. Its designed that way. Its just plain text.

http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html

Compare that with the source code editor I use, SciTE. It does wonderful things like match braces and highlight reserved words in the language of the source code I am using. It anticipates the reuse of variable names and allows auto completion. It is able to do these things by magic. No, the Dark Side of the Force. No, not that either. Its something much more powerful--it was programmed to do it. SciTE is a much more powerful editor than Notepad because it was designed that way.

W3schools.com does what it does for the same reason--it was programmed to do so. It 'fixes' the errors and omissions so your code will run, so you can learn. The fact that you caught it doing its job means you are pretty observant :)
"To understand recursion you must first understand recursion."
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Re: odds and ends

Post by radicool_systemite on Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:18 am
([msg=19412]see Re: odds and ends[/msg])

Thanks for that explanation, new. I'm still not sure I get it, but I think it's probably because I don't know anything about programming. I'm quite sure that once I get to that level of learning I'll probably be answering my own questions. It just seems a bit strange that a learning website programs it's programs to treat mistakes as though they were correct. I can understand the usefulness of that at times, but part of me was a bit disappointed with it. It kind makes me feel like the programming is out of control, or the computer won't really do what I tell it to do at times. Maybe I'm just ignorant.
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Re: odds and ends

Post by comperr on Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:48 pm
([msg=19530]see Re: odds and ends[/msg])

radicool_systemite wrote:
If you break a rule, people will let you know.


Ummm, Thanks...?

just because you didn't want something to happen doesn't mean your computer wasn't told to do so.


But my question was about a circumstance in which you DID want something to happen, and it happened, DESPITE an error on your part with the code.


Then you /did/ tell the computer to do so - but you didn't know it.

Lets say you want to add two numbers
show a + b
is the same as
show a - -b
You may have an error (the double minus) but you still told the computer to add

this should be in "newbie" or "programming"
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Re: odds and ends

Post by IncandescentLight on Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:08 pm
([msg=19531]see Re: odds and ends[/msg])

Well there may be programs to block certain things such as registry changes, SQL injections etc. Otherwise there would be no security at all. Also for some rules, to be broken, require permissions. Such as the access of some password files.
Speak softly and carry a big stick -Theodore Roosevelt

http://www.rhetoricalcatch.blogspot.com
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