### Suggested Readings

Posted:

**Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:20 pm***sigh*

For a philosophy forum, this topic is depressingly lacking in people actually well-read in philosophy.

First of all, part of the problem lies in what you (the person who posted the original message, whose name I have since forgotten) actually mean by your question.

But if I'm interpreting your question correctly, then you are asking about the existence of some sort of objective reality that exists and possesses some intrinsic truth value outside of subjective observation. In this case, all of the eminent philosophers since Descartes have pretty much agreed that it does not exist, or is not accessible. Also, you should read up on Kant, and Nietzsche's proclamation that god is dead.

As for the person who said math is true, there are several flaws in your argument. First of all, you're assuming that your own logical intuition is not wrong, which would be impossible to prove for you anyways. (Hence again, inaccessibility of verification, except through a very naive and flawed application of Occam's Razor.) Secondly, modern mathematics relies on ZFC, which Godel showed was impossible to prove consistent within itself. The standard axioms of historically 'orthodox' schools of mathematics have been bent or broken many times throughout history. Just look at non-Euclidean geometry or Russell's paradox.

For a philosophy forum, this topic is depressingly lacking in people actually well-read in philosophy.

First of all, part of the problem lies in what you (the person who posted the original message, whose name I have since forgotten) actually mean by your question.

But if I'm interpreting your question correctly, then you are asking about the existence of some sort of objective reality that exists and possesses some intrinsic truth value outside of subjective observation. In this case, all of the eminent philosophers since Descartes have pretty much agreed that it does not exist, or is not accessible. Also, you should read up on Kant, and Nietzsche's proclamation that god is dead.

As for the person who said math is true, there are several flaws in your argument. First of all, you're assuming that your own logical intuition is not wrong, which would be impossible to prove for you anyways. (Hence again, inaccessibility of verification, except through a very naive and flawed application of Occam's Razor.) Secondly, modern mathematics relies on ZFC, which Godel showed was impossible to prove consistent within itself. The standard axioms of historically 'orthodox' schools of mathematics have been bent or broken many times throughout history. Just look at non-Euclidean geometry or Russell's paradox.