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Re: Is there such a thing as truth

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:21 pm
by griallia
Truth is what we make of it. In the concept of logic, there is only false or true. Everything can be bended.

10 < 10

It breaks down to this. The Universe is real, we're not.

The Universe is the universe, it's always that way. Reality is simply how we perceive. What if we lived in a world where our brain interprets light differently?

Re: Is there such a thing as truth

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:52 pm
by t_n83
c24lightning wrote:
Kalraken wrote:
c24lightning wrote:you would be assigning Sally to every red thing. What if you have red hair? Then your hair is Sally?

That does not assign Sally to everything red. The red hair is the subject. The sentence simply states that Sally has red hair somewhere on her body, has Red hair on her person, or owns red hair.

Please learn grammar!

Sally has red hair. or Sally's hair is red..

"red hair" or "red" is not the subject. It is the predicate.

The understood quantifier of "Sally" is "All" (All Sally...).

Now in strict logical form, your statement is this (brackets separate terms):
All [Sally] is [that which has red hair]. or All [Sally's hair] is [that which is red].

Because the quantifier of [Sally] or [Sally's hair] is All, it is distributed. The predicate ([red hair] or [that which is red]) is always undistributed in universal affirmative statements, such as the two Sally statements.

If JoS was saying that those statements are equivilent to 92=92, he would be assigning [Sally] or [Sally's hair] to all [red things]. We know that some [red things] are not [Sally] or [Sally's hair], so JoS is wrong if he is saying it is equivilent to 92=92.

Kalraken, I'm a couple weeks away from completing my second year of logic. I have taken grammar for more than 8 years. You better be dang sure when you're saying I'm wrong.


Back to the point of this topic..

JoS said "Everything I say is a lie." (or something very close to that).

I will expand on this:

"Everything I say is a lie."

If I lie about everything, then that statement is true, so I am telling the truth. But if that statement is true, then some things I say are not lies, including "Everything I say is a lie". That means that "Everything I say is a lie" must false. But if some things I say are not lies, my satement that "Everything I say is a lie" must also be false. This will go in a contradictory circle, much like "What came first - the chicken or the egg?" because you need one for the other, for example, a chicken can only come from an egg, but the egg is made by the chicken.

So there must be such a thing as truth, or else nothing could exist.
And if nothing exists, there is nothing that can be true because there is nothing to be true. ;)

What came first chicken or egg?
Dinosaur eggs were around long before there were chickens
but if you are talking about chicken eggs then the chicken had to have come before the egg
if the egg came first there would have been no chicken to sit on it and incubate it and it would have died and we wouldn't have KFC

Re: Is there such a thing as truth

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:02 pm
by griallia
Through evolution, you will need to have some sort of Proto Chicken to incubate the egg. Egg wins. Also the egg develops before the embryo.

Re: Is there such a thing as truth

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:38 pm
by t_n83
my chicken comment was a joke

*proto chicken ROLF*

Re: Is there such a thing as truth

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 12:58 pm
by drgn_nut
one important thing that i am surprised no one has brought up so far is the only true statement able to be made by any person: I exist! anything else ever said, done, demonstrated, etc. could actually be false due to some sort of a distortion in your brain that would cause you to see false as true and/or true as false. therefore, I exist is the only true statement anyone can ever make because no matter what manifestation you really are, whether that is human, squirrel, amoeba, or some other type of life unknown to man's limited knowledge, you were still able to conjure up that thought yourself, proving your existence. no one can prove that they exist to anyone else, but the statement is still true within your own mind. everything else could possibly be true, or it could possibly not.

Re: Is there such a thing as truth

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:03 pm
by drgn_nut
Jesus_of_Suburbia wrote:
Anything that can be empirically proven is either true or false, everything else is opinion.

Baseball is better than Football
Cheese tastes better with Wine
Apple makes the best products known to man

all subjective and opinionated, therefore not true.

ah, but not quite. even if all of the statements are "subjective and opinionated" that does not necessarily entail falsity. just because it is not true to you does not mean it is not true. truth is defined by the individual, as i showed in my previous post. now if this entire forum page is about generally accepted truth, then i would be willing to concede a degree of correctness to you. however, it is about truth in general, if i am not mistaken.

Re: Is there such a thing as truth

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:49 pm
by lambda0
This notion of the ultimate truth is only a figment of our imagination. The sky is blue. What is the sky? What is blue? Every statement is based on sensory input which the brain interprets, stores, and can later be relayed in a vocal or some other form of expression. There is no real truth nor is there "reality", for that matter.

Re: Is there such a thing as truth

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:53 pm
by blackprince491
there is no fact...because we only have really good hypothesis so if there is no fact how can there be real truth?

Re: Is there such a thing as truth

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:48 pm
by Skittatles
Truth doesn't exist and never has; it is merely an abstract value defined to Society to help them decide what's right and wrong. Truth is right and Lying is wrong. That itself, is a lie or at the very least, a hypocritical statement.

Truth can only exist if there something that is indisputable. 2+2=4 is a logical statement, but is it really truth? If we didn't have maths, that it wouldn't be true. 2+2=4 is disputable, and it may change in the future but that is only because the perception of what '2' is, may change.

Re: Is there such a thing as truth

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:23 pm
by ADDWar
Take a look back at Basic HTML.

There are true and false statements.

If you want to get in-depth

Bill has killed John
It was not in self-defense.
John was unarmed and Bill was aware of this.

Question= Is Bill guilty of a crime?

Answer= Yes

Why= Ending the life of another person without it being self-defense.

In Conclusion=

If Bill says "Yes I've committed the crime of murder" Statement is true.
If Bill Says "No I haven't committed the crime of murder" Statement is false.

Considering he was on a soil of a government which by law defines killing another person other than self-defense "Murder"

You can go deep as you want with the question. But here is your answer, There is truth and false. But you can go so in-depth of what truth and false is you may think one or the other doesn't even exist.