Page 1 of 1

Charlie Hebdo Attack

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:49 am
by RatkinHHK
Any ideas worth sharing about the terrorist attack?
I am surprised no one talks about this...

Re: Charlie Hebdo Attack

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:13 am
by Iblist
Well, as of writing this, the suspects for the Hebdo attack have taken hostages and are holed up in an industrial estate. Good luck mister hostage, try not to get shot.

Re: Charlie Hebdo Attack

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:45 am
by parakkafaith
heh... "Hacktivist" group Anonymous says it will avenge Charlie Hebdo attacks by shutting down jihadist websites

All religion and politics aside, it's just a depressing shame that people die for these things. It's so frustrating and sad to see all of that life go to waste over fairy tales and money.

Re: Charlie Hebdo Attack

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:25 pm
by Iblist
It's over, all three suspects are dead, as well as three hostages. Oddly enough, the fourth hostage, the one I mentioned earlier, survived. I guess I'm clairvoyant! Anyway, the standoff ended how I figured it would, with the morgue getting some new tenants.

Re: Charlie Hebdo Attack

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:59 pm
by cyberdrain
Is this the first attack you guys heard about? I thought this was the 4th one in a few months already. The only reason being that France has a lot of people joining the wrong side.

parakkafaith wrote:heh... "Hacktivist" group Anonymous says it will avenge Charlie Hebdo attacks by shutting down jihadist websites
All religion and politics aside, it's just a depressing shame that people die for these things. It's so frustrating and sad to see all of that life go to waste over fairy tales and money.

Completely agreed, but that's life. I find it interesting that when people die for free speech, it's suddenly the holy grail of the Western society, but when it really comes down to it to protect it but there's money involved, anything from patents to copyright to research data to zero days is suddenly more evil. It's like saying 'you have free speech, but don't say something we don't like'...

Re: Charlie Hebdo Attack

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:17 am
by tremor77
cyberdrain wrote:Completely agreed, but that's life. I find it interesting that when people die for free speech, it's suddenly the holy grail of the Western society, but when it really comes down to it to protect it but there's money involved, anything from patents to copyright to research data to zero days is suddenly more evil. It's like saying 'you have free speech, but don't say something we don't like'...


I think there is a difference between "free speech" and "free information". And anyone who thinks free speech ever existed or ever will exist is completely jaded. And what happened to political correctness? Admittedly Charlie Hebdo pulled no punches, just do a google image search, I saw the gamut jews, gays, the pope... and i thought penthouse comics were bad.... but they seem to really be going hard at the Muslims more so than anyone else. Now I don't condone violence but to some degree you have to think like an intelligent person... you play with fire you're going to get burnt... what would you expect to happen if a white guy walked through Compton screaming "get jobs you lazy niggaz" - he's going to get his ass shot, and no one is going to stand up for his right to free speech their going to say.. the dumb ass brought it on himself.

This post may make me look like a cynical asshole, but Charlie Hebdo were poking a bull for a long time.. and that bull has a bunch of crazy-assed gun-toting fanatical followers who don't like their bull being poked. We always like to put the "western spin" on things like this.. that "they are attacking our freedom of speech".. bullshit. They way "they" see it is retribution for disrespect to the prophet. Just saying, don't get drawn in by the spin. It's a couple fanatics being nuts and nothing more. There are tens of thousands of these people all around the world and not all of them are Muslim, there are more mass shootings and gun deaths in the United States than any other developed country in the world:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jan/18/mark-shields/pbs-commentator-mark-shields-says-more-killed-guns/

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/09/19/u-s-has-more-guns-and-gun-deaths-than-any-other-country-study-finds/

Let us also not forget the brutal history of our "western civilization" - as for centuries we swept across the planet killing, enslaving, profiteering from millions upon millions... the entire middle eastern and african mess is the fault of the french and the spanish, with their artificial nation borders that made no deference to tribal or other differences. Then all we want is their oil so we prop up brutal dictactorships, and to top it all off you have some jackass frenchies making fun of your religion. It's that last slap in the face.

I don't condone the killings.. and sympathize with the victims, but lets keep the perspective about this.. this isn't about free speech.. it's about oppression.

Re: Charlie Hebdo Attack

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:25 pm
by cyberdrain
tremor77 wrote:I think there is a difference between "free speech" and "free information".

I agree to this extent: free speech is a subset (usually talking) of free information.

tremor77 wrote:political correctness

I don't agree that you have the right to shoot someone you don't agree with, let alone that it's somehow 'deserved'. And yes, I agree that in regards to society that paper is a minority, so the attack wasn't politically correct. For both parties that term doesn't apply here.

tremor77 wrote:Just saying, don't get drawn in by the spin.

There is no real 'spinning' here, people were attacked for what they jokingly thought and wrote. Sure it can be offensive and sure it can be seen as racist, but that doesn't mean you can just go on a killing spree because you feel threatened. The problem here (in my opinion) is in what those who feel threatened/attacked/wronged decide to do with that. Charlie Hebdo did not promote attacking a religion or fuel hate against a group, they picked an issue and created a joke about it. And yes, those types of jokes are created from all parties, that you don't see those of the 'other side' (so to speak), doesn't mean they're not there. Would you start a war/killing over that too?

tremor77 wrote:I don't condone the killings.. and sympathize with the victims, but lets keep the perspective about this.. this isn't about free speech.. it's about oppression.

Oppression? So one paper/minority oppresses another minority, is that what you're saying? It would be oppression if the French (or any) police started randomly killing people of a certain group because they didn't like what they were saying. So if it is about oppression, it's the other way around.

Re: Charlie Hebdo Attack

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:48 pm
by tremor77
There is a ton of spin here. Take this for what it is. It's senseless violence committed by people who have been warped into the belief of an extreme cause. The cause, for what it's worth may have evolved out of any religion's tendancy to spew out extremism. Take abortion clinic bombers of the extreme Christian factions, or the ethnic cleansing of Muslim's in Sri Lanka by the Tamil Tigers (this list gets excruciatingly long but i could list a hundred more and maybe I should?)

The spin that irks me here is that there is very media friendly concept of "Islamists are attacking freedom and all that is good and right in the world". And that plays into the hands extremists of other sects hands like the neo-nazi's of Dresden, Germany. And it increases the mass hysteria that results in retaliatory attacks, that only inflame the terrorists own thoughts and rhetoric, and the rock keeps rolling on down the hill.

I'm not claiming to know of the right way to state it, if I did, I'd say it. Just saying like in another post :twisted: , question everything. Perhaps I have the misfortune of being able to identify with mass murderers.. ya I'm that kid who actually drew up plans to take down as many people in my highschool as I could and I even had access to the materials needed, I never went through with it, and eventually I outgrew that person. So I know what and where it is to be at the lowest of the low, the allure of an extremist group where you can belong, aye, even be a hero/martyr/crusader - so I empathize to some extent with the bad guys of Columbine, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Boston Marathon, Charlie Hebdo and all the others in between, because some how -they got to that point- and whether via their own demons or under the influence of others, they crossed the line. Somehow that all gets lost on the post-atrocity media spin, whether it's the greater need for gun control/less gun control depending on which color you wear, or to redouble our efforts against the evil Muslim's who threaten our way of life.....

The real tragedy is that real people are ending up in a position to carry out these crimes. Let us not forget that.. and the atrocities committed that put them there in the first place. Maybe I'm reaching pretty far to tie these things together for the sake of playing devil's advocate? But I feel that there is a bigger picture issue at play here and I'm just not eloquent enough to state it.

#Je suis Charlie #Je suis Ahmed #Je suis dégoûté (disgusted) by the media's coverage of the importance of slacktivism via hashtag as well. Going to sign off now, I've just been in an I hate everything about everything mood for a few days now lol.

Re: Charlie Hebdo Attack

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:51 am
by cyberdrain
tremor77 wrote:The spin that irks me here is that there is very media friendly concept of "Islamists are attacking freedom and all that is good and right in the world".

Well, that's probably a difference in media influence. It wasn't written like that in any article I read, nor were there any indications that it should be taken that way. In case that was so on your end, either change news sources or yes, ignore the spin. The amount of damage the Crusaders did in the name of religion doesn't even come close to what is happening now, but that's besides the point.

tremor77 wrote:Let us not forget that.. and the atrocities committed that put them there in the first place. Maybe I'm reaching pretty far to tie these things together for the sake of playing devil's advocate? But I feel that there is a bigger picture issue at play here and I'm just not eloquent enough to state it.

The point you're trying to make seems to me like you feel the western society is doing too much damage against certain groups. I would agree with that. What I don't agree with is that justifying killing people over it.

Take whatever bigger issue you want: Earth's natural resources dwindling (oil being one of them), meaning fighting over what remains; the USA having a war economy (just look at the defence budget), meaning war is a requirement to keep cash flowing; world economics having problems (possibly due to the first reason), meaning every country starts doing what it does best to prevent further economic loss. This does not justify killing people over it either, yet that happens too.